Show #14: The Fruity Girly Beer Show
Prebeer Preamble: Apparently SoB offends the sensibilities of my fellow beercasters at The Beer Report and Craft Beer Radio. Reading between the lines of their parody of Show #10’s “little cricket” skit, my show just isn’t “manly” enough for them. In response, I tackle that most metal of brews: fruit beer!
Beer #1: In response to a voicemail from Andrea in Chicago, our quest for a fruity gateway beer begins. First up is Unibroue’s Éphémère (Apple). I’m once again joined by budding beer enthusiast Devona as we sample this apple-infused witbier from Quebec. Is it just apple juice with a buzz, or is there more to this spritzy concoction?
Interbeer Interlude: Beerlosophy Essay . “My Problem with Citrus”. What starts as a rant about squirting fruit juice in beer morphs into an examination of individualism, and ultimately a plea for tolerance and understanding of our fellow human beings. Especially those who make beer.
Beer #2: Devona and I now turn our attention to Lindeman’s Framboise Lambic. It’s a different belgian style underneath all those berries. Is it more newbie-friendly than the Éphémère? Also, Devona plans her Christmas Eve dinner.
Beer Geek Moment: “The Lambic.” When is a beer something more than a beer? When it’s a lambic. The secrets of Belgium’s most mysterious style are laid bare, as we find out “lambic” is most definitely NOT synonymous with “fruit beer.”
Postbeer Postscript: Devona and I report our scores on these fruity brews. It’s pretty clear what the favorite was on this day, but will either do the trick for Andrea and folks like her?
[Note: If you’re interested in Michael and Evo’s Wingin’ It! beer openers, as heard on the show, look here]
September 20th, 2006 at 1:38 pm
Thanks Charlie.. my husband and I will be trying your beers this evening!!
September 20th, 2006 at 8:47 pm
The parody on The Beer Report and Craft Beer Radio get credit for introducing me to your podcast (new listener!) and I’m already turned off by the title of this episode.
I’ll try it out, but I’ll be listening to it while driving to the Hop Off Championship @ Union Jack’s Inn featuring beers THIS girl drinks (Russian River Pliny the Elder, Pliny the Younger, Damnation, Deification; Weyerbacher Eleven Triple IPA; Southern Tier Unearthly Imperial IPA; Union Jack’s Hoptimus Prime by Legacy.)
September 21st, 2006 at 3:50 am
[…] With respect, I admit I haven’t heard this podcast yet, but the title of this episode already turns me off… Admittedly, I like my Framboise, but given the choice, I’ll take a strong ale over fruit any day. (I found a great article on Realbeer.com on Real Women who drink real beer, so I know I’m not alone!) […]
September 21st, 2006 at 4:16 am
Pucrawler, as a Beer Report listener, I’m sure you know better than to be offended by mere words, like the joky title of this episode. Hopefully you got to listen to the content of the show and will let me know what you think.
As to your beer inclinations, check out Show #7, Hop-a-palooza! for some Dogfish Head 120 Minute IPA and Sam Adams Imperial Pilsner. I try to cover it all around here.
September 21st, 2006 at 11:55 am
I loved the Beerlosophy in this episode. I must admit that I have squeezed the citrus in my beer. This was primarily before I became a brewer. I agree with you that putting the citrus into your beer without tasting it first (Corona excluded), does a great disservice to the beer and the brewer.
I almost never put lime or lemon in my beer now. As you pointed out, if you want it after your initial taste, go for it. I have done this…when I thought that the fruit would improve the taste of the beer.
September 21st, 2006 at 2:31 pm
Lambics girly HA! The skill to making any Belgian puts most brewers to shame.
I think the exception for Lemon is if the Hefe has lost it’s fresh and crisp edge, but then it’s so old you shouldn’t drink it.
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:49 am
I’m mostly caught up with the old episodes, and I “get” the title of show 14, risky as it may be. The modern craft beer renaissance seems to be all about breaking stereotypes, and whereas fruit beers fans may in fact turn out to be disproportionally female, anybody that lets clichés dictate their drinking choices deserves what they get. I haven’t had a chance to actually listen to this latest installment, but I’m planning to finally drink along this time, and to do so with a macro-brew buddy. It’s so crazy, it might even work.
September 22nd, 2006 at 1:27 pm
Good luck with that SOBbro! I think you might open some eyes with this one.
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:25 pm
Your show, as well as your on air persona seemed to be incredibly approachable, affable and (hopefully you will take this as a compliment because that’s how it’s intended) female friendly.
I subscribed to your show on itunes. I am a big fan of TRB, but I like the different tone of your show. Consider me a fan.
September 22nd, 2006 at 7:10 pm
Well I think what you are all missing is that the fruity beers were selected to convert a non-beer drinker. Yes real women drink real beer, and so do real men. My husband also is not a beer drinker. We prefer mixed drinks which tend to be sweeter, and those drinks are usualy called girly drinks… my husband though is obviously not a girl and he enjoys “girly drinks” just fine.
I apologize that I always add my citrus to the beer.. actually the other day I tried a Hefe Weizen for the first time (and added the lemon into the beer) and I also really liked it
So Charlie- We didnt get to try the beers the other night, but today my husband picked up the beers you suggested on his way home today and we had one of each tonight.. and well you did good Charlie. We liked both of them.
The Unibroue’s Ephemere was light, but it was refreshing. I agree it would be something for special occasions not an everyday beer. I liked it more than my husband, he thought it was a bit too light.
The Lindeman’s Framboise Lambic- it was a really pretty color. We both really liked this one. I liked that it wasn’t overwhelmingly sweet.. something I was concerned about when I first saw this. Again I agree it is more for a special occassion.
So Charlie.. you did good… whats next for us?
September 22nd, 2006 at 7:31 pm
I’m glad you both enjoyed the beers, Andrea. Sounds like your husband’s experience was similar to mine with the Ephemere, but I definitely think there’s a time and place for enjoying both of these beers.
As to what’s next…well, a Beer Guy doesn’t drink and tell, but let’s just say that the next couple of shows won’t be “gateway’ shows. Also, on the next episode my co-drinker is someone you (Andrea) know pretty well, and he (or she) is a fellow Farpoint podcaster.
Don’t fret though, more “conversion” beer shows are in the pipeline!
September 22nd, 2006 at 7:43 pm
Noelle, thanks! Glad to have you as a listener. Please don’t hesitate to give any feedback or input into the show…I want you to continue enjoying what you hear.
September 23rd, 2006 at 12:08 pm
Hey Charlie, I cant wait to check this show out…. As usual, I’m sure its a class act.
One note. My inspiration for watching this show comes from going to a brewfest last night. My Wife and her friend were completely turned off by 99.9% of the beers… So, I directed them to the Lambic table, in hopes that they would find SOMETHING they would like, and not destroy MY evening!
I think they drank the while supply of DeTroch Pineapple! Really, they couldn’t get enough.
So, as we all know… The fruity beer shows are a necessary evil!
G
September 23rd, 2006 at 9:31 pm
Thanks for stopping by Groucho! I hope you enjoy the show. Sounds like your wife and her friend might enjoy it too.
September 24th, 2006 at 5:37 am
Okay Charlie- I await your next instructions
September 25th, 2006 at 6:37 am
Charlie,
If Andrea is enjoying the more fruity beverages, should we direct her to trying out some fruit mead (melomels and pyments)? Sure, it’s not beer, but they are still fun to drink.
You & the Wingin’ It crew seemed to like the mead I sent when you tried it in Voicemail #76.
September 25th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
Chip,
That was definitely some good mead you sent M & E. Methinks a mead/melomel/pyment SoB (or 2) is in the offing (it’s not beer, but it’s certainly close enough for me). Commercial examples are a little tricky to come by, but they’re out there. Maybe around Ren Faire season…
…did I actually say “methinks”?
September 26th, 2006 at 2:01 pm
Great show, Charlie. Love the fact that you are trying different kinds of brew. Whether I ever try them or not, it’s nice to learn about them.
The beer interlude was a bit soapboxy ( if that’s a word). Are we supposed to stop adding sugar and milk to our coffee and tea? I can’t imagine drinking a Corona without lime–it’s more than a tradition or ritual– it’s required to actually drink the stuff.
I won’t put citrus in a good beer, but if it’s borderline, it’s getting squirted.
September 26th, 2006 at 4:33 pm
Steveosaur, glad you liked the episode!
Thanks for the feedback on the essay. I really wasn’t trying to be preachy…drink (and eat, and listen to, etc.) what you like. My point was if you need to make something taste like lemon in order to drink it, you might as well order lemonade (which is “designed” to taste like lemons). If you can’t stand Corona without the lime…maybe you should be drinking something better than Corona.
Oh, and I like my coffee black.
September 27th, 2006 at 8:34 am
Well, it’s like putting really good Scotch on ice or using it as a mixer. The good stuff, you enjoy as is. The bad stuff, you can do whatever you want with it.
September 27th, 2006 at 9:47 am
Dear Charlie,
I hate you and your podcast… and here’s why…
1. Youre informative, insightful, and entertaining - How dare you sir? How dare you sully the good name of beer by trying to educate people! Dont you understand that we in the masses could give a rats ass about different beers? Cmon man… climb down off your highhorse and get with the program.
2. You give your recommendations and dont get pissed if people tell you that they dont care for the beers - How dare you again sir! Dont you know its your DUTY to tell off folks who dont enjoy your recommendations? DO you not know as beer caster its is YOU who reigns supreme? To hell with those who dont agree with you! Dont be all kind and accommodating and understanding! Sheesh!
3. Youre clear and concise - Screw this!!!! Youre a BEER CASTER!!!! Its your DUTY to babble incoherantly and make stoopid remarks. Honestly, Ive never seen such a disgrace… how dare you make a mockery of the profession by bringing in things like “thought” and “wit” and “coherancy” into this? For shame sir.
As you can see Ive ripped you a new one. I expect this page torn down and your podcast ended due to my scathing remarks.
Best,
Ignorant F**k
September 27th, 2006 at 12:22 pm
Alvie, wipe that face off your head!
September 27th, 2006 at 12:25 pm
lmfao. Leave it to Alvie to find a great way to say what we feel in the guise of comedy.
Gawd, we need the Alvie Comedy Cast.
September 27th, 2006 at 1:19 pm
*wipes*
mmmf mmmf mff!!!
Thank you ditto! I try.
Ok, so as not to make this Deadpan 2… a beer comment…
I myself prefer a lime with my crappy Mexican beer… yes, Corona, Negra Modello… I HAVE to have a crappy Mexican when I have Mexican food - and Im man enough to admit it. They just go well together… but I find that the citrus not only goes well with the beer, but also enhances the food… other wise Id nevar do it… just my 2 cents
September 27th, 2006 at 4:14 pm
Charlie, I was going to guess that you liked your coffee black. No ketchup on your fries or salsa on your tortilla chips also, right?
I agree Alvie, there is something special about squeezing the lime into a Negra Modelo and letting it mix with the fish taco’s and frijoles. I can drink the beer as is, or turn it to “11″ with the lime.
September 28th, 2006 at 5:56 am
Hey, Charlie-
Just finished listening, and wanted to comment on your beerlosophy segment. I don’t think you’re giving brewers enough credit. Or at least, I think the situation is a bit more complex than the way you presented it.
Consider the hefeweizen. In Berlin and Saxony, it’s served with a lemon wedge — this style has migrated to the US. In Munich and Bavaria, it’s served with a splash of raspberry syrup, or an herb-infused syrup. Brewers in those locales are aware of the way the beer is served, and take that into account when they create their beer recipes. That explains some of the differences in the styles of wheat beers brewed in the different regions. It explains the different varieties of hops that are used, for example: Munich hops taste good with raspberry, Saxon hops complement acidic, citrus notes.
So why wouldn’t the Berlin brewer just add the lemon juice during the brewing process? Well, it might be because fresh lemon juice tastes completely different from lemon juice that has been sitting around for a while. Particularly in a bottle-conditioned beer — like, say, a hefeweizen — the lemon juice would be quite old. I would guess that volatile flavor compunds like the citrus oils would change markedly over time.
I suspect it’s similar to food recipes where some portion of the lemon juice (or garlic, or herbs) is reserved, and then added immediately before serving. They taste completely different when they’re cooked: the brightness is lost in the process.
In the preceding, I’m not saying that you should change the way you enjoy your beers. Like I said, though, I think the situation is more complex than what you presented, and that brewers can and do take into account the way the beer is expected to be served. Again using the food recipe comparison, whereas a recipe for an Italian dish may end, “Serve warm, with grated Parmesan,” it’s possible that the unwritten recipe for Paulaner (Munich) Hefeweizen may be, “Serve cold, with a splash of raspberry syrup.”
Your thoughts appreciated….
September 28th, 2006 at 6:00 am
Oh, and by the way, in re the parody you played, I don’t think you’re pretentious at all. Since it was a parody, it’s nor clear whether they meant it as real criticism or if they were just giving you a hard time for fun, but…
I think it’s really cool that you talk about different varieties of beer, even ones that you’re not necessarily so fond of yourself, and that you get guests with different tastes and opinions on the show, too. And when one of them disagrees with you, either liking something that you weren’t so fond of, or vice versa, you’re very respectful and accepting of their opinions. (Except the the lemon thing. )
I think you’re doing a great job.
September 28th, 2006 at 6:47 am
Thanks for the feedback John. I agree 100% with you in what you say regarding the essay: the situation is complex, and some beers are designed for “post production modification.” Indeed, my point in the essay wasn’t “don’t put citrus in your beer.” (or “Don’t put salsa on your chips” koff*Steveosaur*koff) It was “Just becuase it is served with fruit, don’t feel compelled to put it in your beer; try the beer and evaluate it on its own merits and before deciding whether or not it will benefit from the addition.” Berliner weisses are almost manditorily served with massively sweet syrup, and the locals like it that way. But there’s a refreshingly tart beer under there that may just be up your alley if you try it.
More broadly, the essay was about avoiding group-think. For every example where the brewer wanted a last minute addition, there’s one where the opposite is the case (I’m thinking witbier and orange slices here). I’d like to encourage beer drinkers to experiment and make up their own minds, rather than be “told” by marketing pressure, peer pressure, or even tradition what to enjoy and how to enjoy it.
I’ll re-iterate, just to be clear: put lemon in your hefe. Put syrup in your weisse. Put bacon in your stout. Put cheese in your pilsner. Just don’t do it until you try the thing, as the brewer made it, and say to yourself: “Ya know, this stout would be so much more enjoyable with a little bacon…”
Thanks for the feedback!
September 28th, 2006 at 7:23 am
Charlie, are you telling me what to do again??? Oh, never mind. It’s just a suggestion.
Speaking of which, certain beers do go better with fruit; mostly “lighter” style beers that are not very hoppy. I do find it interesting that Germans love to mix beers with all sorts of stuff. Experimentation is good.
Personally, I don’t care much for the lambics. I like the fruit flavor in my beer to be a little less… agressive. However, I think lambics could be very good for cooking. Sacrilege, I know.
September 28th, 2006 at 10:53 am
Don’t worry, we like Charlie. The skit was a parody, nothing more. We got a little harsh, we admit, but it was all in good fun (and we needed to pad out parts of it with whatever jokes we could come up with.) We don’t think that Charlie smells like anything but fruity lilacs after this show. And we don’t think Charlie is a stuck-up pretentious douchebag.
However, we did think the original skit made him come off that way
September 28th, 2006 at 1:59 pm
Greg, thanks for stopping by, and thanks for pointing out the whole “fruity lilac” thing!
As to the original skit…as a regular listener (or at least someone who does their homework) I’m sure you realize that the pretention in the skit WAS the joke, as it contrasts comically with my generally affable and self-deprecating persona.
..wait..was that pretentious?
September 29th, 2006 at 6:58 pm
Steveosaur -
Just for the record . . . Charlie happens to make a KILLER salsa even if he does prefer the “crappy” tortilla chips!!! As for ketchup on his fries - well, I can’t say that I’ve ever seen him eat french fries so that one will remain a mystery!
October 1st, 2006 at 8:24 am
Charlie - Quick report on the “fruity beer meets macro boy” tasting. It might be best characterized as a minor “green eggs and ham” event. It took a while to get the thing off the ground, and when it finally did, the Ephemere fell flat (as it were), but before it ever came up on the show, macro boy was inventing the framboise float, and looking towards the holiday season. Given other circumstances I won’t go into, I’d call it a minor victory for beer diversity. The evening after the tasting, we hit a bew pub neither of us had ever been to, and he ordered their advertised gateway beer (a cream ale), and had nothing but good things to say about it.
One down, about a zillion to go, but he made the good point that mass market beers are also part of the diversity, and that there probably really is something to be said about appreciating the subtle differences between the products that us beer snobs lump together as crap (after which I was compelled to drink an Old Style, which I at least found nostolgic). I’m not going to press my luck on this guy with the episode #15 beers, but if he brings up the subject himself, I will consider him a full fledge convert.
October 3rd, 2006 at 4:34 am
Charlie,
Really enjoyed listening to my first SOB episode. While I sometimes drink Black and Tans when out at a pub, I drink Sailor Jerry rum and Cokes whenever they have it…and Jack and Cokes when they don’t.
I will say, however, whenever I’m lucky enough to find myself playing bocce ball at a beergarden (which I’ll grant you is rare) I’ll have a hefeweissen…nothing like it in this horrible Texas heat!
Thanks for broadening my horizons on the different types of beer. I’ll get there yet!
October 4th, 2006 at 8:56 am
Charlie, you crack me up.
“Éphémère . . . that’s french for er, something.”
Thanks for the unintended chuckle.
Debbie
October 4th, 2006 at 9:22 pm
[…] The tap list at Union Jack’s was pretty amazing, and the bottle list was equally impressive. Picking our pre-contest beer was a chore (and, unfortunately, after I ordered a Sly Fox Simcoe, there was no more to be had!) D started with a Young’s Double Chocolate Stout and Mark had the Rodenbach. Inspired by the despised podcast title, I decided on a Lindeman’s Peche, which was really quite refreshing on that early fall evening. […]